The Secrets of the Secret, Secret Society [S2.E5]

Byron Yawn: 00:00:00

This is going to be a master class on this subject because we're masters at it.

There are some lessons in life you can only learn and levels of wisdom that you can only learn by your world falling down and you getting up on the other side of that and start walking forward.

Tullian Tchividjian: 00:00:19

I think we want pastors to hear this, whether they are where we were or about to be, because some of them are about to be and they don't know it yet. For some, their greatest failure may be ahead of them.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:00:32

You'll probably not find three people more compassionate to your secret struggles than us.

VOICEOVER: 00:00:41

You're listening to the misfit preachers, Tali and Chavigian, Jean Larue and Byron Yan from ProdigalPodcast.com we're plagiarizing Jesus one podcast at a time. Now here are the misfits.

Byron Yawn: 00:00:57

Welcome to Misfit Preachers.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:01:00

Bonus episode.

Byron Yawn: 00:01:01

Bonus episode.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:01:03

Didn't see that coming, did we?

Byron Yawn: 00:01:04

It's a curveball with a very specific target. It's. It's Maddox on the inside. So as usual, I am here with the misfits. Jean LaRue III, aka J3. I'm going to. And Tullian Chavigian.

Tullian Tchividjian: 00:01:24

Always good to be here.

Byron Yawn: 00:01:25

All right. It is a bonus episode and a very specific episode targeted at a very specific group of people.

And as it turns out, this is going to be a master class on this subject because we're masters at it. And as far as I know, gentlemen, I. I've never seen this happen. Right.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:01:52

What's the this?

Byron Yawn: 00:01:54

People, individuals, pastors in ministry who have failed in extraordinary ways, go big or go home, have processed through that, have repented and begin making amends, restoring their lives, recovering their faith and walk in faith, who've been given opportunity like this and then turn around and attempt to show compassion towards a group of people that are very isolated right now.

One of the things that's in our minds, and if we look at it objectively, it's true that we would disqualify hearing from people that have been through what we've been through, as if what we did disqualifies everything we ever preached, right? What we did, and in particular, what we've learned.

In my mind, and I could justify this biblically, it is, I think, a very good idea to rethink that and reframe that. It is in everybody's best interest always to sit at the feet of failure, even in their own lives or the lives of other people and take notes.

There's more wisdom there than you can really find anywhere else. Anywhere else. Now, in this particular case, you have three men who went through pretty severe.

Tullian Tchividjian: 00:03:26

Crashes and burns.

Byron Yawn: 00:03:27

Yes, thank you.

And have come out the other side with a desire to share from within our experience to the broadcast community of humanity out there that here's what we went through. Here's. Here are the mistakes we made here. Where. Here's where our mind was, and here's why. Why it will destroy you.

Pay attention to what we have to say. So we're coming regardless of whether the listener, and I would just say the critics believe it or not. And I don't care.

We're really coming at this from a very, very compassionate, sympathetic, and empathetic perspective. So that's just to set the tone, and I'll let you guys.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:04:05

Now, did you say the target where you said aimed at a very specific target. What are we. Who are we talking to?

Byron Yawn: 00:04:10

Well, I'm assuming that they've read the title. Oh, so we're talking to pastors. This goes out specifically to pastors.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:04:18

Okay.

Byron Yawn: 00:04:19

And we. From the beginning, we don't assume that you were like us. We don't assume that you were where we are.

And we don't assume that you're hiding some giant secret, although there are always secrets, or that your life is on the precipice of collapse, that you've done something. Hopefully, by God's grace, you're faithful in your role and will remain that way forever. But I will say this.

There are some lessons in life you can only learn and levels of wisdom that you can only learn by your world falling down and you getting up on the other side of that and start walking forward.

Tullian Tchividjian: 00:04:59

That is empirically true, anyway.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:05:02

Well, the old saying is the burned hand teaches best.

Tullian Tchividjian: 00:05:05

Yeah.

Byron Yawn: 00:05:07

Anyway, just fill in here on the intro so that people know the spirit in which we're offering.

Tullian Tchividjian: 00:05:15

I think we want pastors to hear this, whether they are where we were or about to be, because some of them are about to be and they don't know it yet. For some, their greatest failure may be ahead of them. So it may not be immediately relevant to you now, but it may be.

I had a friend of mine tell me years ago, we preach grace even to the people who don't think they need it now because they will at some point. They'll remember what you say when the diagnosis comes in, that sort of thing.

So I think it's important, obviously, for pastors to hear this, but I also think everybody, at least in the religious world, has an opinion about what churches the Christian community ought to do, or the way they ought to approach a Christian leader or a pastor who bottoms out, who crashes and burns.

So while we want preachers, past pastors, Christian leaders to hear that their greatest failure may be their greatest gift to those who hear them, we also want to help steer the conversation away from what it typically is, which is guys like us who, at any point in their time as a pastor or a Christian leader fall and fall. Big should go away and never emerge. Go sell insurance, Go sell cars.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard from, you know, strangers on social media. Go find a job. Yes, you can be forgiven by God, but you can never be restored to any form of Christian leadership. You had one shot.

I heard a prominent pastor in Southern California not long ago say, when it comes to the ministry, you have one shot, and if you blow it, you're out for good forever. And I think that's. That's what a lot of people have been taught. That's what many people think.

And so for the people who have been taught that or the people who think that, we want to give perhaps a different perspective on this.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:07:46

And in. In my mind, along the same lines is saying to guys out there who have.

Haven't had the big blow up, haven't had the, you know, the disdain of being the target of blogs and posts and all that kind of stuff, you'll probably not find three people more compassionate to your secret struggles than us.

Tullian Tchividjian: 00:08:08

Yeah.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:08:09

And there's nothing, and I mean nothing, that you could email us, tell us, talk to us. I mean, there would be nothing that wouldn't know would make us. Because the truth is, we know the fear that you live in.

Tullian Tchividjian: 00:08:24

Yeah. And this is a context in which sin does not shock and grace still amazes. So I concur.

If you need to confess something and not see a shocked reaction, we're the guys.

Byron Yawn: 00:08:43

And the beauty of this medium. A podcast.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:08:47

Yes.

Byron Yawn: 00:08:48

Is that you don't have to associate with us publicly to benefit from us digitally.

Tullian Tchividjian: 00:08:56

You can listen to us in secret.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:08:58

You don't have headphones.

Byron Yawn: 00:08:59

You don't have to tell your board. You don't have to tell your favorite preacher. You don't have to tell your seminary. You don't have to tell your denomination.

You don't have to tell anybody. You can just listen.

Tullian Tchividjian: 00:09:13

Just listen.

Byron Yawn: 00:09:14

Yeah.

Tullian Tchividjian: 00:09:14

And take notes.

Byron Yawn: 00:09:15

So let me. Let me begin with this, and let's assume that it's not all pastors that are listening.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:09:24

No.

Byron Yawn: 00:09:25

Right.

Tullian Tchividjian: 00:09:25

No.

Byron Yawn: 00:09:26

Let me describe how difficult the role of pastor is okay. It's not the theological training, it's not the sermon prep that's the hardest.

It's not even caring for the people typically, that's the greater joy of it all. It's not the schedule, it's not being on call 24 hours a day, it's all of it.

And I've mentioned this when I told my story, but I just want to elaborate on it a little more if I can, if you guys will allow me. There's a. There's a phenomenon known as offset identity disorder.

Happens in careers or industries where in order to do it, you have to dedicate your entire life towards it. Military, professional sports, various other industries like that. CEOs, particularly entrepreneurial startups, are part of it as well.

And essentially, essentially the theory is that in order to do it, you have to dedicate your entire life to it over a long period of time to master it. Which means that there are certain normal experiences in life you don't get to participate in.

So all that socialization and interaction experience that are on the outside of it is very limited in your life. Right? To do it, you have to dedicate totally towards it. And by the time you get towards the end of whatever that career is, you leave that career.

And when you step out of it, you realize that what you were doing, you confused with who you are and you panic at the end of that because your identity was what you were doing. Now, here's how that applies to pastoral ministry. The role of pastoral ministry and why it's worse.

And I would argue that the hardest role on the planet is pastoral ministry. It's a blessed role, it's privileged role. All of those things are true.

But there's no other role where finances, community, family, church, career, spirituality, friendships, relationships are all stacked together. You pull one of those out, it's like a giant Jenga, they all fall down. That's correct.

And there's no role out there that is in more danger of supplanting their actual humanity with an avatar of ministry than the pastoral role. That in and of itself creates a very unique danger. And here's how I'll summarize this.

If you're just not in ministry and are listening, I'm going to tell you something that's absolutely true. Your pastor has never, ever, ever, ever been completely honest with you about themselves.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:12:30

True statement.

Byron Yawn: 00:12:31

Ever. And any pastor who's listening, you know it's true. Why?

Because the moment their humanity breaches the surface of their reality and you see it, they are done they are disqualified. Right?

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:12:46

Yeah. If it makes it out uncurated because we're. I'll speak for myself. I was an expert at letting it out, but where I controlled the flow.

Byron Yawn: 00:12:57

Right.

Jean F. Larroux, III: 00:12:58

So it comes out as actually a subtle illustration of my victorious application of Jesus rather than an actual illustration of the fact that I was an so.

Byron Yawn: 00:13:08

Pastors are confessors but have none. Right. They don't. There's nobody they can go to to be human broken and completely honest.

And that that reality is what in my opinion not in everyone leads to a lot of of the events that are taking place with notifications on your phone about another pasture has fallen. Is that everything? No, but at some point you got to look at the sample size and listen. I'm just going to say it.

If the assumption is that our theology was the cause, there's one of our episodes you can go listen to if you think our theology was the cause of our downfall. I think the sample size is large enough in other denominations and other traditions that mutes that completely. It mutes that.

So I just want to give the listener a context for just the gravity and the pull on humanity within the pastoral role.

VOICEOVER: 00:14:22

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