The PLACE for people who have no PLACE
Three former pastors, now misfits themselves, dive into the messy reality of God's grace and the church's often harsh response to failure. They candidly discuss how fallen leaders are frequently ostracized instead of embraced, sending a damaging message that the church isn’t a safe place for those who stumble. Through personal stories and reflections, they highlight the vital truth that the most broken and lost are precisely the ones Jesus came to rescue. With a blend of humor and sincerity, they explore their own journeys and the importance of normalizing humanity within the congregation. Join them as they challenge the status quo and advocate for a grace-filled community where everyone is welcome, no matter their past.
Takeaways:
- The immediate response to fallen leaders is often ostracization, which is harmful and ungraceful.
- People who have sinned deeply crave to be known and loved unconditionally.
- The Misfit Preachers believe that acknowledging our failures allows us to embrace God's grace.
- Experiencing grace in community can transform how we see ourselves and others.
- The church should be a safe place for those who struggle and have fallen.
- Grace is not just a theological concept; it's a lifeline for those who've failed.
The Misfit Preachers engage in a compelling and thought-provoking discussion about the nature of grace in the context of failure and redemption. The three former pastors, who have each experienced their own share of missteps, bring a unique perspective to the conversation, emphasizing that the church should be a place of refuge for those who have faltered. They explore the painful reality that when leaders fall, the immediate reaction is often one of ostracization, sending a clear message that certain mistakes are unforgivable within the church community. This episode serves as a critique of how faith communities often respond to failure, urging listeners to reconsider their attitudes towards those who have stumbled.
As they share their experiences, the hosts recount numerous stories of individuals who have come to them seeking grace amid their struggles. They underscore the importance of not allowing one moment of failure to define a person’s entire identity. Through their anecdotes, the Misfit Preachers illustrate that the church should embody the grace that Jesus exemplified, welcoming those society tends to cast aside. The conversation interweaves humor with weighty themes, creating an inviting atmosphere that encourages reflection on the church's role in the lives of the broken and the hurting.
The episode culminates in a powerful call to action for both leaders and congregants alike. The Misfit Preachers encourage listeners to embrace their vulnerabilities and to foster a culture of acceptance within their communities. They remind us that everyone has a story, and it is often in our shared brokenness that we find connection and healing. By creating a space where grace is freely given, the church can fulfill its mission of reaching out to the lost and the marginalized, embodying the heart of the Gospel and reflecting the love of Christ in a world that desperately needs it. This episode is a rich exploration of the themes of grace, redemption, and the beauty of community forged through shared imperfection.
Transcript
When I was in ministry back in Nashville, people would come to me from time to time.
Speaker A:They'd show up at the church, they'd be new, and they would have dun, dun, dun.
Speaker A:The most dramatic, bloody, carnage filled story of a failure or something in their life that I have ever heard.
Speaker A:And they were certain of it.
Speaker B:I hear from fallen leaders, preachers every week, all the time, from all over the world.
Speaker B:Almost the immediate response of a fall of a leader is ostracization.
Speaker B:Gone.
Speaker C:You're listening to the Misfit preachers, Talian Chavigian, Jean Larue and Byron Yan from ProdigalPodcast.com we're plagiarizing Jesus one podcast at a time.
Speaker C:Now here are the Misfits.
Speaker A:Welcome to Misfit Preachers and welcome to Misfit Island.
Speaker A:And I'm definitely, as I said, train with square wheels on that, that island.
Speaker D:Of Misfit, the mayor of Misfit Island.
Speaker A:If I, if I was voting for anybody, it would be paid.
Speaker B:What was the jack in the box?
Speaker B:That wasn't a jack in the box?
Speaker D:Charlie.
Speaker B:Charlie in the box.
Speaker B:That's me.
Speaker B:Because people wind it up and expect something to come up and it's not what they expected.
Speaker A:Well, you, you founded Misfit Preachers and it's your, the genesis is with you.
Speaker A:So you're the bear.
Speaker D:I'm the what?
Speaker A:You're the mayor.
Speaker B:You are the mayor.
Speaker A:At any rate.
Speaker A:At any rate, Jean LaRue, Tully and Chavigan, as always, a privilege to be here.
Speaker A:I, I just have to tell you, I'm.
Speaker A:I'm in the cat bird seat of a deluge of grace.
Speaker A:Every time I sit around this table and talk and I, I realize that, I didn't realize that I need to hear it like constantly, you know, never gets old.
Speaker A:You never get past it.
Speaker A:You never move on those sorts of things.
Speaker A:So just, just thank you for that and I hope that's the effect to the listener.
Speaker A:What we want to do is describe what we're trying to do, what we will do, what we want to do and who we want to love through this message.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And where we're coming from, which isn't where we were before, which is important, I think for people who might know a little bit about us that, let's just say things have shifted.
Speaker A:You know, when I was in ministry back in Nashville, people would come to me from time to time.
Speaker A:They'd show up at the church that'd be new and they would have dun, dun, dun.
Speaker A:The most dramatic bloody carnage filled Story of a failure or something in their life that I have ever heard.
Speaker A:And they were certain of it.
Speaker D:They have to tell you too, before they join.
Speaker D:So they.
Speaker A:Well, they wanted to see if I would reject them.
Speaker D:They're looking for the flint.
Speaker A:And because you can always notice grace in a person's eyes or the absence of grace in a person's eyes after they've told you their story.
Speaker D:Correct?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:There's a side eye spiritually.
Speaker A:And so they would tell me their stories and I would be underwhelmed on purpose, be sensitive and compassionate.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And, and there was something in the proving grace is not just a theory moment for them of my response, of stepping towards them that they'd never felt before.
Speaker A:Like I wasn't shocked.
Speaker A:In fact, I'm not surprised.
Speaker A:In fact, I expected it.
Speaker A:And whenever they left my office, I would always say the same thing I would say to them or the couple or the teenager or whomever it was a single mom or the baggage in the moment.
Speaker A:Hey, by the way, I just want you to know I will not see this when I see you on Sunday.
Speaker A:I am going to rob you of the opportunity to make this, this one moment, particular chapter, paragraph, sentence in your story, the whole story and your identity.
Speaker A:And it's going to be weird and you're not going to expect it, but I'm going to normalize your humanity in the rest of the congregation.
Speaker A:Eventually you're going to start telling everybody who you are and you're going to get the same response.
Speaker A:In my mind, that's the effect that I want to have in my own message and us personally.
Speaker A:That's my angle towards it.
Speaker A:But I've had that in my life.
Speaker A:You've done that for me and you've done that for me, and there's no experience like it.
Speaker A:Humanly speaking, it's the rarest.
Speaker A:Everybody's core need is to be known totally and loved unconditionally.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Anyway, I'll let you guys chime in.
Speaker B:Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, I.
Speaker B:I hear from fallen leaders, preachers all the time.
Speaker B:I'm talking every week, all the time, from all over the world.
Speaker B:And one of the things that stands out to me, and I think it's an indictment on the religious community really, is regardless of the circumstances, almost the immediate response of a fall of a leader is ostracization.
Speaker B:Gone.
Speaker B:Now there are some legitimate reasons why this person needs to be on the sideline, why this person needs to be out of their current role.
Speaker B:Totally get that.
Speaker B:I'm even for that, you break your leg on the football field, you sit on the bench until it's healed and you go through the rehab necessary until your leg comes back stronger than it was.
Speaker B:I get that.
Speaker B:I think there are some leaders and preachers who try to come back too quickly and it's a massive mistake.
Speaker B:They haven't done the hard work, they haven't dug deep enough.
Speaker B:But the response of most churches, a lot that I'm aware of, to handle fallen leadership in that way, communicates something to the entire congregation.
Speaker B:And what it communicates is this is not a safe place to screw up.
Speaker B:And in communicating that, they're communicating something about God to these people and how God relates to us to these people.
Speaker B:And it's a tragedy.
Speaker B:I mean, it's an absolute tragedy.
Speaker B:They don't realize how destructive, abusive even it is to handle fallen people that way, visible fallen people that way, because it communicates loudly and clearly to these people what is and is not allowed here, what God expects from you.
Speaker B:And if you do not meet those expectations, you are not welcome here.
Speaker B:I, like I mentioned, get a lot of letters and I compiled some of those when I was writing Carnage and Grace.
Speaker B:And I put them in the book just to give people a sampling of the kinds of things I was hearing and the kinds of experiences people were having.
Speaker B:And I was sitting.
Speaker B:Stacy and I were living in Fort Myers, Florida at the time.
Speaker B:It was year two of our marriage, maybe almost year three.
Speaker B:And it was like ten o'clock at night.
Speaker B:I get a notification on my phone that an email has come in through the website, through my website.
Speaker B:So I open it, I read it, I push pause on the television.
Speaker B:Stacy and I were watching and I said, listen to this.
Speaker B:And this is the letter that I got.
Speaker B:I had been a successful pastor, author and denominational leader for 35 years.
Speaker B:My sin.
Speaker B:My son in law discovered my sinful history on my computer that included pornographic websites and same sex chat room conversations.
Speaker B:He reported it to my wife, my family and my church.
Speaker B:My wife left the next day and filed for divorce.
Speaker B:My children haven't spoken to me since.
Speaker B:And the denomination expelled me, removing my license and credentials.
Speaker B:I lost my marriage, my family, my church, my reputation, my friends and all of my colleagues.
Speaker B:I am now alone 15 months later in an apartment by myself, trying to cling to Jesus, grateful for his forgiveness and mercy, but devastated by the consequences of my decisions.
Speaker B:Please pray for me as I try to move forward.
Speaker B:Thank you for listening.
Speaker B:God bless.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:And there are a lot of those in here.
Speaker B:And the thing that stuck out to me and the reason I read it out loud to Stacy was because I said, listen, I know we don't know the whole story here, okay?
Speaker B:I mean, this is a snapshot and obviously catastrophic thing, sure.
Speaker B:And there's probably so many other sides to this story, but this is what I do know.
Speaker B:And this guy was in his 60s.
Speaker B:I said, this is what I do know.
Speaker B:There is a 60 something year old man living alone, by himself, isolated, abandoned, clinging to whatever life he thinks he may one day have, clinging to that hope.
Speaker B:And everybody in the situation, the family, the church, the friends, the colleagues, everybody in the situation claims to be Christians.
Speaker B:And I have no, I've got no question or doubt that they are.
Speaker B:But I'm thinking this is.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, the reaction to this guy is normal Christian behavior in terms of.
Speaker B:Not normal.
Speaker B:In terms that it's.
Speaker B:Right, it's normal in the, in terms that it's common.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I kind of want to sit here.
Speaker B:I don't, I don't know if you saw the movie Bohemian Rhapsody.
Speaker B:Amazing movie.
Speaker A:Of course, yes.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Amazing movie.
Speaker D:Does anybody want to know if I saw it?
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker B:Well, we know you don't watch movies.
Speaker B:No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker B:Did you see Bohemian Rhapsody?
Speaker B:Okay, so it's a story of Freddie Mercury's life, really.
Speaker D:I did know that.
Speaker B:And what's the guy's name?
Speaker B:Malik.
Speaker B:Remy Malek, I think.
Speaker A:Played Freddie Mercury Academy Award.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he said their queen, the band is sitting down with, they hadn't been signed to a label yet.
Speaker B:They're sitting down for lunch and the label guy looks at them and says, why should we sign you and Freddie Mercury in the movie?
Speaker B:His answer was, basically, we are, we are the misfits at the back of the room and we are here for you.
Speaker B:And we fit with them, essentially.
Speaker B:That was what.
Speaker B:And it reminds me of George Costanza's father on Seinfeld, creating a new holiday Festivus for the rest of us.
Speaker B:And when I think about the sanctuary, I think about misfit preachers.
Speaker B:I think we're the, we're Freddie Mercury saying, we belong to you and you belong to us.
Speaker B:The people at the back of the room who don't fit.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:We're, you know, George Costanza's father having to create a new holiday for the rest of us.
Speaker B:You know, it's a strength now.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I, I, I.
Speaker B:What's ironic is I feel like I fit most with misfits.
Speaker B:Misfits are my people.
Speaker B:Misfits are the group of people that I finally fit in with.
Speaker A:Yeah, I get that.
Speaker A:I, I, that's always been there in me.
Speaker B:Me too.
Speaker B:Me too.
Speaker A:And I didn't really know what it was when I was ministering.
Speaker A:And I want to hear from you as well.
Speaker A:I just want to put a bow on what he's saying.
Speaker A:And going through this process and quite frankly, sitting at bars alone with strangers, meeting people, getting pushed out into that world, you realized, I think I've been in the wrong place of long time.
Speaker B:I know the feeling.
Speaker A:A long time.
Speaker A:In fact, here's a quick story.
Speaker A:I was sitting at my favorite bar in Brentwood, Tennessee.
Speaker A:I'm sitting next to a guy that I know named Bobby, and Bobby is talking about a struggle in his life and his family.
Speaker A:And he literally said while I was sitting there, you know what we need.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I was like, no.
Speaker A:He said, we need pastors that have blown it, so they know.
Speaker D:I promise, he doesn't know who you are.
Speaker A:He had no clue.
Speaker A:Because I was undercover big time during that period of time, and I was like, we, you know, we need pastors that have blown it so they know how to speak to us.
Speaker A:And I was like, like, what?
Speaker A:And then I came out on barstool Sports, and then I went back and.
Speaker B:He goes, byron, you know, but, dude, that is so.
Speaker B:That is the.
Speaker B:When I first met Stacy and was lamenting that I would never preach again, I would never write again, and she didn't grow up in the world that I grew up in, and she looked at me, literally, and was like, are you crazy?
Speaker B:Like, honestly, are you insane?
Speaker B:Like, people like me and everybody in my family and the friends I've had my, My entire life, you're the only kind of person we would ever even listen to.
Speaker D:Wow.
Speaker B:Ever.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, she's been through some and her family been through some, and she's like, I can't listen to somebody who doesn't have dirt under their fingernails and failure on their resume.
Speaker B:I mean, my gosh, who.
Speaker B:Who best to talk about the destructiveness of sin and the radicality of God's grace?
Speaker B:Like, someone who's been there.
Speaker B:It's not a theory to us.
Speaker B:This is not a theory to us.
Speaker B:This is our lifeline.
Speaker B:This isn't a theological tagline.
Speaker B:This is our lifeline, and we believe in it so much that we want to share that with others.
Speaker B:We're hoping that other people will see there's a place for them.
Speaker C:You've been listening to the misfit preachers, like, subscribe and share more grace centered resources at Prodigal Podcasts.
Speaker C:That's prodigal P R O D I G A L Podcasts with an s dot com.
