Christmas on the Island of Misfit Preachers [S1.E8]
The Misfit Preachers Christmas episode invites listeners into a heartfelt and humorous exploration of the holiday season, blending nostalgic memories with theological reflections. The hosts, each sharing their unique perspectives, engage in a lively discussion about the significance of Christmas movies, traditions, and the deeper meaning behind the holiday. The episode opens with lighthearted banter regarding their lack of Christmassy attire, setting a playful tone that continues throughout the conversation. The hosts debate classic Christmas films, with 'Die Hard' humorously touted as a legitimate holiday movie, while the iconic 'Sound of Music' emerges as an unexpected favorite for one host, illustrating how diverse and personal holiday traditions can be.
Throughout the episode, the discussion shifts from festive traditions to the emotional complexities surrounding Christmas, particularly for those who may be grieving or facing difficult circumstances. One host shares a poignant reflection on his experience of spending a lonely Christmas after a divorce, emphasizing the contrast between the joyful expectations of the season and the harsh realities that some individuals face. This candid sharing resonates deeply, reminding listeners that the holiday season can be a challenging time for many, and it's essential to acknowledge and honor those feelings. The episode culminates in a collective understanding of the importance of grace, the beauty of the Incarnation, and the reminder that God enters our brokenness, offering hope and comfort amidst life's struggles.
As the hosts recount their childhood Christmas experiences, they touch on the joy of family traditions, the excitement of opening gifts, and the sometimes painful reality of family dynamics during the holidays. The conversation reveals that while Christmas can be a time of celebration, it also serves as a reminder of loss and change. They encourage listeners to embrace their emotions, validating the pain and sorrow that can accompany the holiday season, while also celebrating the joy found in family, faith, and the enduring message of Christmas. Overall, this episode serves as a rich tapestry of laughter, nostalgia, and profound insight, inviting everyone to reflect on what Christmas truly means to them.
Takeaways:
- The discussion emphasizes the importance of embracing and expressing emotions during the holiday season, especially for those facing loss or grief.
- Christmas traditions can evolve over time, and families can find new ways to celebrate together, even after changes like divorce.
- The significance of the incarnation is highlighted as a reminder of God's grace and mercy, showing that love often comes down to us in brokenness.
- Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own childhood Christmas experiences and how they shape their present celebrations today.
- The podcast touches on the reality that not everyone has a joyful Christmas, and it’s okay to acknowledge pain during the holidays.
- Humor and lightheartedness are important in discussing Christmas, but so is the acknowledgment of deeper emotional experiences.
Transcript
Welcome to Misfit Preachers Christmas.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:It's almost Christmas and none of us look Christmassy.
Speaker B:And John looks Santa Claus.
Speaker B:Ish.
Speaker B:Just the white beard.
Speaker C:The white beard and the green monkeys.
Speaker B:I got Jim Carrey's Grinch is brilliant.
Speaker A:So my, my favorite Christmas movie is Die Hard.
Speaker B:I'm not disagreeing with you, but what makes you say Christmas movie?
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He's in an air vent.
Speaker A:He's got the lighter lit and he's going to come out for the holidays.
Speaker A:We'll have a good time.
Speaker A:It'll be wonderful.
Speaker A:It's a Christmas.
Speaker B:And that takes place.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Office Christmas party's happening.
Speaker C:Which, by the way, Office Christmas Party.
Speaker C:Amazing Christmas movie, by the way.
Speaker B:No, there was nobody opening presents simultaneously.
Speaker C:Correct.
Speaker B:And I grew up with seven kids, so you can imagine Christmas morning, how incredibly painful it was to sit there.
Speaker B:One, two, three, four, five, six.
Speaker B:My turn.
Speaker B:One, two, three, four, five, six.
Speaker B:My turn.
Speaker B:Two, two.
Speaker B:Has to go tt Be back in a minute.
Speaker A:You got to curb that.
Speaker A:You got to curb that.
Speaker C:And then we would make cookies for Santa.
Speaker C:Homemade cookies.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:On the plate.
Speaker C:And we would all.
Speaker C:And I mean everybody write an actual note.
Speaker C:Not a half ass note.
Speaker C:I mean like a letter.
Speaker C:You are penning a letter to a man.
Speaker C:And when you get into the living room, the first thing before the stockings, before breakfast, before anything is.
Speaker C:We had to read Santa's response, which always was a critique of the cookies.
Speaker C:I was like, you're frickin crazy, mom.
Speaker B:You're listening to the misfit preachers.
Speaker B:Tali and Chavigian.
Speaker B:Jean Larue and Byron Yan from ProdigalPodcast.com.
Speaker B:we're plagiarizing Jesus one podcast at a time.
Speaker B:Now here are the misfits.
Speaker A:Welcome to Misfit Preachers Christmas edition.
Speaker C:Yes, it's almost Christmas.
Speaker A:It is a holly, jolly podcast.
Speaker B:And none of us look Christmassy at all in terms of our attire.
Speaker B:We have a red pen and jean looks.
Speaker B:Santa Claus.
Speaker B:Ish.
Speaker B:So you represent the season.
Speaker C:I'm gonna take that.
Speaker B:There's just the white beard.
Speaker C:The white beard and the green monkeys.
Speaker C:I got it.
Speaker A:There is in.
Speaker A:In the Brentwood area of Tennessee.
Speaker A:You know the Starsky and Hutch car, how they brought it?
Speaker B:Course, yeah.
Speaker A:Red.
Speaker A:The white stripe.
Speaker A:There's an older gentleman that drives it and he's like the local Santa Claus guy.
Speaker A:Wears it all year.
Speaker A:Not the suit, but he's in the bar.
Speaker A:And it's really funny to see a drunk Santa Claus, but he's everywhere really.
Speaker A:And really has embodied it.
Speaker B:What makes him the town Santa Claus?
Speaker B:Does he dress in a Santa Claus outfit or just has the beard and the hair?
Speaker A:He's just.
Speaker A:It's his identity now.
Speaker A:He doesn't wear the suit, but it's the hair and the beard and hat that usually has something to do with Christmas on it.
Speaker B:So he's owning it year round.
Speaker A:I don't know what that illness is called, but he's got it, like, didn't graze him.
Speaker A:Hit him.
Speaker A:Hit him head on.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And Merry Christmas.
Speaker C:Merry Christmas, Santa.
Speaker A:Christmas to you guys.
Speaker C:Brentwood Santa.
Speaker A:If you're watching, imagine sleigh bells somewhere in the background, because that would be solid.
Speaker A:Hear him.
Speaker C:Yeah, I can hear kind of.
Speaker A:I can hear him.
Speaker A:So, guys, it's great to be with you.
Speaker A:I am with none other than Tullian Chavigian and Jean Larue, whom I love very much.
Speaker A:And when I think of Christmas, I think of them.
Speaker C:You're so kind.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I just make it up as I go along.
Speaker C:So what are we talking about in the Christmas episode?
Speaker A:We're gonna have a conversation.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker A:We're gonna land the plane where it needs to be.
Speaker A:But in the beginning, we want to ask some questions that you can ask at home with your family, around the Nativity or wherever you want to, if you want to.
Speaker A:But I want to ask you guys because we want to know something about you.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:These are Christmas themed questions.
Speaker A:That is correct.
Speaker C:Is there a right or wrong answer?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:And telly.
Speaker B:And if it's not my answer, it's wrong.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:I'm picking up that theme.
Speaker A:Bah humbug.
Speaker A:Bah the humbug.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Best Christmas movie.
Speaker A:Go.
Speaker B:You go first, Sean.
Speaker C:It's Sound of Music for me.
Speaker C:And I don't know why that is the Christmas movie, but we watched it as a family every year on.
Speaker C:In between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Speaker C:It is the one that I go to, like my kid.
Speaker C:We will.
Speaker C:The family text will start saying, have you watched it yet?
Speaker C:And the it.
Speaker B:And what was the reason?
Speaker B:Like, I haven't seen that movie in so long.
Speaker B:Is there.
Speaker B:Is there Christmas somewhere in.
Speaker C:You would think there would be.
Speaker C:And I don't think there is.
Speaker B:I mean, it's Switzerland.
Speaker B:Not Switzerland.
Speaker B:It's Austria.
Speaker B:Austria.
Speaker C:It's Austria.
Speaker C:And I don't know why, but I think they used to show it when it was just regular broadcast.
Speaker C:It would kind of come out that time of year.
Speaker C:And so just.
Speaker C:Yeah, kind of.
Speaker A:It's kind of a pleasant.
Speaker A:Most pleasant movie about The Nazis I've ever seen.
Speaker C:Honestly, it's so unbelievable that you could pick that out of there.
Speaker A:I mean, that's what it is.
Speaker B:It has been a long time since I've seen that movie.
Speaker B:I was never a huge fan, really.
Speaker B:I'm just not a huge fan of musicals.
Speaker B:Never been a huge fan of musicals.
Speaker A:You don't like Rocky Horror Picture Show?
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker A:Have you ever been to see it live?
Speaker B:No, but if I did, I would probably like it.
Speaker C:What about the stories you'd see Les Mis.
Speaker B:Would I see it live?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Like it's.
Speaker B:Oh, well, of course.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But my favorite Les Mis was not the.
Speaker C:The singing one.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It was the Liam Neeson one.
Speaker C:Agreed.
Speaker B:Movie.
Speaker C:Agreed.
Speaker B:Grease.
Speaker B:Great musical, by the way.
Speaker A:Sorry, that's not a Christmas movie.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker A:Kidding.
Speaker B:Favorite Christmas movie would have to be, hands down for me, the George C.
Speaker B: Scott: Speaker B:It's my all time favorite.
Speaker B:I will say this starting.
Speaker B:Thanks.
Speaker B:The day after Thanksgiving.
Speaker B:No, excuse me, I misspoke.
Speaker B:Starting December 1st through Christmas Eve, my wife Stacy and I watch a Christmas movie every night, 24 nights straight.
Speaker B:That is a tradition that her and I started together and I love it.
Speaker B:But I save George C.
Speaker B: Scott's a Christmas Carol: Speaker C:Do you.
Speaker C:Would you ever share the list?
Speaker C:I mean, do y'all have them picked out or.
Speaker C:They rotate.
Speaker B:We start around Thanksgiving, making our list.
Speaker B:Now, each year, there's usually one or two that neither of us have seen.
Speaker B:Maybe they came out recently or we just never got around to seeing it.
Speaker B:Like, what's the one with Arnold Schwarzenegger?
Speaker B:The funny one?
Speaker A:There's a funny movie where he's.
Speaker B:They're trying to.
Speaker B:He's trying.
Speaker B:It's him and Sinbad and they're trying to.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:They're both pining for a very popular toy.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I don't remember the name of it.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:I mean, it's been out forever.
Speaker B:I had never seen it.
Speaker B:We watched that one last year.
Speaker B:So there are ones like that.
Speaker C:Some one offs.
Speaker B:Deck the Halls with Danny DeVito is absolutely hilarious.
Speaker B:If you haven't seen it, add it to your list.
Speaker C:Four Christmases.
Speaker B:Stacy loves four Christmases.
Speaker B:I like four Christmases.
Speaker A:I like.
Speaker A:What's the movie?
Speaker A:This isn't my favorite, but with Bill Murray, when they go back and do the.
Speaker B:Yeah, they do the Christmas Carol.
Speaker B:Scrooged.
Speaker B:Dude, good movie.
Speaker C:Still Murray.
Speaker C:Off the rails.
Speaker A:So good.
Speaker A:And then Jim Carrey's as well is good.
Speaker B:Jim Carrey's Grinch is brilliant.
Speaker A:So my.
Speaker A:My favorite Christmas movie is Die Hard one.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because people say it's not, and it is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because what makes you say it's a.
Speaker B:I'm not disagreeing with you, but what makes you say Christmas movie?
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He's in an air vent.
Speaker A:He's got the lighter lit and he's gonna come out for the holidays.
Speaker A:We'll have a good time.
Speaker A:It'll be wonderful.
Speaker A:It's a Christmas.
Speaker B:And that takes place.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Office Christmas Party's happening.
Speaker C:Which, by the way, Office Christmas Party.
Speaker C:Amazing Christmas movie, by the way.
Speaker B:Seen it.
Speaker C:You're kidding.
Speaker B:I don't think I've seen it.
Speaker B:I don't think I've seen it this year.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:I'm adding it.
Speaker B:Put it in the one off the new ones.
Speaker C:It's off the rails.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:At some point we asked the question of best action movie.
Speaker A:I said John Wick.
Speaker A:And then just underneath that, Born right up there close, is Die Hard.
Speaker A:It was a genre maker changer.
Speaker A:I love those kind of movies.
Speaker B:So Predator Commando, all things Short.
Speaker A:I like the first Predator, then just First Blood.
Speaker B:The very first Rambo predator kids saw.
Speaker C:Oh, that.
Speaker C:We didn't think of that one.
Speaker B:First Blood.
Speaker B:The very first Rambo.
Speaker B:Not the second and third Rambo, but the first.
Speaker B:First Blood.
Speaker A:The guy who plays the commander.
Speaker B:The commander in the.
Speaker A:In the First Blood.
Speaker A:The guy in the tent that they bring down.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Richard Krena.
Speaker A:Gosh, man.
Speaker C:I mean, unbelievable.
Speaker A:Who was the sheriff hunting him down?
Speaker B:Who was Ryan Dennehy?
Speaker A:Come on.
Speaker A:I love Denny.
Speaker B:Dude.
Speaker B:He was amazing.
Speaker B:Do you.
Speaker A:Did you like the Rockford Files as well?
Speaker B:Not so much.
Speaker A:He lived in a trailer on the beach, bro.
Speaker A:It was fantastic.
Speaker B:Ryan Dennehy.
Speaker A:No, the guy Rockford.
Speaker C:Jim Rockford.
Speaker A:Jim Rockford.
Speaker A:Oh, oh, oh.
Speaker A:Random.
Speaker A:But the thing, if you think of a.
Speaker A:If you ever use the expression barrel chested.
Speaker A:He's barrel chested.
Speaker C:It's Brian.
Speaker A:Brian.
Speaker A:Didn't hear Brian.
Speaker B:Den.
Speaker A:Look it up in the dictionary.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:Who was also Chris Farley's father in Tommy Boy?
Speaker C:Yes, he was.
Speaker A:And who was classic Farley's stepmother and Tommy.
Speaker B:Come on.
Speaker B:Bo Derek.
Speaker B:10.
Speaker B:All right, who was his stepbrother?
Speaker C:David Spade.
Speaker C:No, David Spade was his partner.
Speaker B:No, that's in.
Speaker B:Yes, that's Tommy Boy saying Elmo's Fire.
Speaker A:A.
Speaker A:Brad.
Speaker A:No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker A:He's now.
Speaker A:He now does ads for Atkins.
Speaker B:Yes, Yes.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:He's so irrelevant.
Speaker A:I can't Remember Rob Lowe?
Speaker A:Roblo.
Speaker A:There it is.
Speaker C:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:The most.
Speaker A:So handsome.
Speaker A:He looks like a girl.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:It's true.
Speaker A:It's true.
Speaker A:Presents.
Speaker C:If you spot it, you got it.
Speaker B:Presents.
Speaker A:I have heard that.
Speaker A:Presents on Christmas Eve or only on Christmas morning?
Speaker B:We were allowed to open one present on Christmas Eve.
Speaker B:One.
Speaker B:The big celebration was always reserved for Christmas morning.
Speaker C:Absolutely identical.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And the one.
Speaker C:The one you could open, you couldn't pick yourself.
Speaker C:In our home, it had.
Speaker C:It was chosen as like, okay, you can.
Speaker C:This is the Christmas Eve gift.
Speaker C:Because you would want to go.
Speaker C:But we didn't even.
Speaker C:They didn't even put out the good gifts until, like, we were dead asleep.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So you couldn't have even chosen a good one.
Speaker B:Same.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And exactly.
Speaker B:We weren't allowed to pick our own gifts on Christmas Day.
Speaker B:My mom or dad would select a Santa Claus.
Speaker B:One of.
Speaker B:And we would all rotate.
Speaker B:We would hand out the gifts and we had to go in order.
Speaker B:And my mom, because she wanted to savor the moment, watch everybody open them.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker B:No, there was nobody opening presents simultaneously.
Speaker C:Correct.
Speaker B:And I grew up with seven kids, so you can imagine Christmas morning, how incredibly painful it was to sit there.
Speaker B:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
Speaker B:My turn.
Speaker B:1, 2, 3, four, five, six.
Speaker B:My turn.
Speaker C:Oh, my mother did the same crazy thing with stockings.
Speaker C:You couldn't even open your stockings.
Speaker B:And we had to open.
Speaker B:This is the order.
Speaker B:On Christmas morning, we wake up.
Speaker B:We cannot come out of our rooms until we are summoned.
Speaker C:What?
Speaker B:Summoned.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Let me tell you, what's coming through is therapy.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:We could not come out of our room.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:And of course, you know, I shared a room with one of my brothers.
Speaker B:There were seven of us, and one of my brothers and I shared a room.
Speaker B:And on Christmas morning, you're so excited.
Speaker B:You're waking up at 6am well, my mom did not say it was okay to leave the room until around 9am on Christmas morning.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker C:Come on.
Speaker B:This is what.
Speaker B:This is what we did.
Speaker B:My dad would sit us all down.
Speaker B:I mean, there's, you know, nine of us now.
Speaker B:Sit us down in the living room.
Speaker B:He would read the Christmas story, we would pray, then we would open stockings.
Speaker B:When this.
Speaker B:One at a time.
Speaker B:When the stockings were done, we moved to the dining room, had a big breakfast.
Speaker B:No promise.
Speaker B:And then once that was finished and the kitchen was clean, we then moved back to the living room.
Speaker B:And one at a time.
Speaker B:So Christmas morning started for me at nine and ended around noon.
Speaker A:Why this?
Speaker B:Ask my mother.
Speaker B:No one has ever been able to answer that question, she has control issues.
Speaker B:You have no idea.
Speaker C:I cannot even tell you how similar this is.
Speaker C:That is the LaRue family Christmas minus inserting multiple breaks for cigarettes and alcohol.
Speaker C:As a four year old, I loved a marble red on Christmas morning.
Speaker C:No, my mother.
Speaker C:It would be in and out.
Speaker C:She'd be on the porch smoking, making her tea, and then we'd have to do the next round.
Speaker B:You ever smoke?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Did you ever smoke?
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I smoke for years.
Speaker B:Years.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker C:I would be smoking right now if I.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:If I didn't think it was crazy.
Speaker B:Sometime in the future, just for time's sake, we should film.
Speaker B:We should record at the very.
Speaker B:With.
Speaker B:With.
Speaker A:Just listen.
Speaker A:If I go.
Speaker B:Cigarettes.
Speaker A:Cigarettes.
Speaker A:If I go to.
Speaker A:Now, I would do it as a kid, you know, high school, whatever.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Just to fit in and be.
Speaker A:But I wasn't like buying a pack.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:I was smoking that sort of thing, which is, you know, that's fine.
Speaker A:I don't judge you.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:Outwardly.
Speaker A:But, you know, be with friends and that sort of thing was cool.
Speaker A:But what I like to do, if I go to an outside concert.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I will go track down somebody that has a cigarette.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And smoke it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:There's just something.
Speaker B:Now I'm a cigarette bummer.
Speaker B:Like I will go bum a cigarette off someone.
Speaker B:I will never buy them.
Speaker B:And I've got.
Speaker B:I smoked for so many years that I've gotten to the point where the smell of it kind of makes me nauseous.
Speaker B:But if I'm out, especially if you have a drink or two, you know, you're with friends, in my case, my kids also, who also enjoy smoking a cigarette from time to time.
Speaker C:Smoking those flash drives, we.
Speaker B:We don't make fun of the vape, John.
Speaker B:There may be some.
Speaker B:But there may be a few people around this table that would be offended by that.
Speaker A:In our.
Speaker A:In our home, my.
Speaker A:My mom had a lot of good in her and.
Speaker A:And had a lot of good moments.
Speaker A:She was really good.
Speaker A:Really good at events like this.
Speaker A:I would walk downstairs.
Speaker A:I went from bastard child to Dr.
Speaker A:Son.
Speaker A: Moved in a new house in: Speaker A:And we would come downstairs and I think possibly she was acting out of regret for kind of what she had put her young children through and that sort of thing.
Speaker A:But I would have a corner.
Speaker A:My older sister would have a corner down in the sunken living room and my younger sister would have a corner.
Speaker A:The only rule was you waited to do the stockings last.
Speaker A:And a total reversal.
Speaker A:And it was come down whenever but you.
Speaker A:You could come down and look at everything and get excited about everything, but you're.
Speaker A:All Your siblings had to be up.
Speaker A:So the first one up was like, elbow in the head, of course.
Speaker C:So what time does this fiasco begin?
Speaker A:Oh, we'd.
Speaker A:Seven, six, seven.
Speaker A:And then we would go downstairs, and everybody would sit at their pyramid and.
Speaker B:Just at the same time, and they.
Speaker A:My dad, Victor, and mom, Debbie, which is what I called them, would just sit there on the couch and drink coffee and.
Speaker B:And watch all the festivities on film.
Speaker A:My mom always tried to buy me clothes, and I.
Speaker A:I did.
Speaker A:I kind of dressed like I do now.
Speaker A:And the moment she said, I bought that for you because I thought it was cute.
Speaker B:Game over.
Speaker A:Cute is a kill word.
Speaker A:Kill word.
Speaker A:And to this day, if anybody found.
Speaker B:A cute outfit, like, this is not an outfit.
Speaker B:These are animals.
Speaker B:This is a shirt.
Speaker C:Yeah, animals is an outfit.
Speaker A:So our Christmas was really great.
Speaker A:And then my sister started to go sideways a little bit, and it.
Speaker A:It changed.
Speaker A:But they were.
Speaker A:They were.
Speaker A:I mean, my.
Speaker A:My parents, I.
Speaker A:They'd say, you can open a Chris a gift on Christmas Eve and then be like, how about.
Speaker A:How about two?
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And there were always, like.
Speaker A:What did she call them?
Speaker A:Christmas happies.
Speaker A:You'd go to your room to go to bed on.
Speaker A:On Christmas Eve night, and there's a Christmas happy in there.
Speaker A: So: Speaker A:I wake up.
Speaker B:What's a Christmas happy?
Speaker A:It's like a gift.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:It's like a small gift.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Just something to unwrap.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's.
Speaker C:It's like a Southern term.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah, it is.
Speaker C:Yeah, it is.
Speaker C:Like, I got you a little happy.
Speaker A:Boom.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:1978.
Speaker A:Star Wars.
Speaker A:The first Star Wars.
Speaker A:The name of that first movie is.
Speaker B:What a New Hope Pass.
Speaker A:It's funny, when I ask these questions, I'm.
Speaker C:There's no reason.
Speaker C:I don't even think there's a reason for your chair to swivel this way.
Speaker A:My mom went and bought me every Star wars figure.
Speaker A:Every figure.
Speaker A:Every.
Speaker B:Who was your favorite Star wars figure?
Speaker A:Darth Vader.
Speaker B:Oh, dude, mine too.
Speaker A:Just obsessed.
Speaker B:Me too.
Speaker A:All original.
Speaker A:She let me play with him for about a week, put him back in the box, and put them in the attic, and said, you're gonna thank me one day for this.
Speaker A:Mint condition.
Speaker A:All of them.
Speaker A:Like, there's like, the Darth.
Speaker B:You still have them?
Speaker A:Darth Vader version that had, like, some weird defect in it.
Speaker C:I had that, like, oh, get to the end.
Speaker A:Do you have these House caught on fire and burned them.
Speaker B:Oh, okay, okay.
Speaker A:Merry Christmas.
Speaker B:First of all, let me say I have the best memories of Christmas time.
Speaker B:Growing up in my home, I cannot think of a negative memory other than having to wait on Christmas morning.
Speaker B:My mom and dad crushed it.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:And growing up in south Florida, it's not cold.
Speaker A:Going to the dentist.
Speaker A:Ish.
Speaker B:No, that was.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker B:It's just because you're small and you gotta wait.
Speaker B:But now I look back as an adult and I'm grateful that she did it that way because my memories are very vivid.
Speaker B:But I mean, my parents crushed it.
Speaker B:I loved, loved, loved Christmas time.
Speaker B:And my parents did a really good job.
Speaker B:Since we grew up in a place that was warm, we were never going to get a white Christmas.
Speaker B:Maybe a cold front would blow through and the temperature would drop to 65 degrees maybe.
Speaker B:And we would always get excited about that.
Speaker B:But my Christmases growing up were the best.
Speaker B:I mean, the best.
Speaker B:And being in a large family made it more fun too.
Speaker A:The best Christmas Eve before, you know, at the end of the day, we go to bed and those sorts of things.
Speaker A:My family would come over.
Speaker A:Extended cousins.
Speaker A:I grew up with like what seemed like a hundred girl cousins and one boy cousin named Brock.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But we would have a talent show.
Speaker B:That's fun.
Speaker A:We had a sunken living room and then the walkway on one side that goes all the way to my parents room.
Speaker A:That was the stage.
Speaker A:And my dad was a bird hunter.
Speaker A:He's a quail hunter.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:We raised Brittany spaniels and kennels.
Speaker A:We didn't raise them, but he was invested in him.
Speaker A:And so every year we do the same talent, which was a quail call.
Speaker A:He would do the.
Speaker A:I can't do it.
Speaker A:I'm not even gonna attempt to do it.
Speaker A:But he'd do it with his hands.
Speaker A:And our assignment was to go to our rooms, get socks, ball them up, and the moment he started, like, throw them across the room at him.
Speaker A:And we would.
Speaker A:The big giant VHS cameras and a couple of other things like that, but it was like that.
Speaker A:It was like.
Speaker A:And the thing I like about Christmas morning, even into my adulthood, it's like the one time I went, today I am not going to worry about anything.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just kind of let it go.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was.
Speaker B:What is the most beautiful place you ever spent a Christmas morning?
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker A:I don't know that I have one.
Speaker B:Victoria, British Columbia.
Speaker B:When I was about 11 years old, my paternal grandfather had a home in Victoria.
Speaker B:They hadn't had Snow in like 25 years.
Speaker B:And we got there on Christmas Eve, woke up Christmas morning, and it had dumped, like, three feet of snow.
Speaker B:And for all of these kids, me and my siblings, South Florida kids, I mean, we were in heaven.
Speaker B:In heaven.
Speaker B:And in Victoria, British Columbia, is an absolutely stunningly beautiful place.
Speaker B:And to spend Christmas Day there that year was most memorable.
Speaker A:Atlantis, Bahamas.
Speaker B:That's what I would choose to do now, for sure.
Speaker A:In that.
Speaker A:In that window.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Mine was t lazy7 ranch in Aspen, Colorado, with my dad and stepmother.
Speaker C:And we.
Speaker C:We rode snowmobiles around the Tetons.
Speaker C:Oh, on Christmas.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker C:Pretty.
Speaker C:Pretty nice.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:New Year's Eve there as well.
Speaker A:And then did New Year's Eve in Maui.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:Hello.
Speaker B:Next level.
Speaker A:Tell the kids about Santa or.
Speaker C:No, do.
Speaker C:Did I tell my children about Santa?
Speaker B:You mean, tell them that Santa isn't real or just.
Speaker C:I guess.
Speaker C:Anyway, anyway.
Speaker C:Anyway, you exegete.
Speaker C:That's question.
Speaker B:I cried, literally cried each time one of my kids came to the realization that Santa Claus was not real.
Speaker B:I wanted to nurture that imagination as much as possible.
Speaker B:I come from a family that nurtured that imagination.
Speaker B:I am so grateful for the heritage I have, the family I grew up in.
Speaker B:My grandmother on my mom's side, so my maternal grandmother, I mean, she was such a CS Lewis junkie that she believed wholeheartedly in the fueling of children's imaginations.
Speaker B:So when it came to the tooth fairy, I mean, if.
Speaker B:If she.
Speaker B:My mom copied this.
Speaker B:Because she used to do this.
Speaker B:My mom.
Speaker B:You know, she would write little notes and leave, you know, from the two.
Speaker B:I mean, I believe the tooth fairy existed until I was, like, 24 years old.
Speaker B:Thanks.
Speaker B:My mother, I was like, why didn't I get a quarter this year?
Speaker B:But, I mean, my.
Speaker B:My grandmother and my mom copied this, too.
Speaker B:Would, like, find this, like, white stuff that would look like a beard and would, like, hang it from the mantle.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker B:Like, he got caught.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I mean, they.
Speaker B:My parents, we had the same.
Speaker C:I mean, my mother, I'm telling you, one year I woke up on Easter Sunday.
Speaker C:She had taken talcum powder on her fingers like this and made Peter cottontail footprints from the front door on the ceiling through the entire.
Speaker B:My mom.
Speaker B:Stuff like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I was like, what in the world?
Speaker B:And Honestly, I was 18, and I have zero.
Speaker B:That's not true.
Speaker B:I'm older and a little bit more tired, so I probably have a little more patience than I give myself credit for.
Speaker B:I have very little patience for Christians who think that telling your Kids, Santa is real, is some abomination.
Speaker B:I mean, these are not people that I could ever actually be friends with.
Speaker B:It's mind blowing to me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:My, my children.
Speaker A:So my, my middle child weighed is what?
Speaker A:Every Christmas he grew up, there's this moment his mom and I would wait for.
Speaker A:And it would happen every time.
Speaker A:Be sitting there by himself, playing with whatever it was he wanted.
Speaker A:They always got everything they asked for.
Speaker A:That's just how it was.
Speaker A:And he would be sitting over there by himself and he would go, this is the best Christmas ever.
Speaker A:He would say it.
Speaker A:So nowadays you just go, hey, Wade, say it.
Speaker A:And he goes, best Christmas ever.
Speaker C:I love it, dad.
Speaker A:But that's all.
Speaker A:He's the one that you didn't want to tell Santa wasn't real.
Speaker A:Blake, he's like five going, dad, come on.
Speaker B:Well, that.
Speaker B:All that means is that you guys did a terrible job of fueling.
Speaker B:Fueling the imagination.
Speaker B:What's the matter with you?
Speaker A:I was never into Christian fantasy literature, never into Christianity.
Speaker A:We were what we were strict capitalists, bro.
Speaker A:It's like, give me the goods, give me the goods.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker B:You are artistic.
Speaker B:Yeah, I am too, in certain ways.
Speaker B:And art thrives on the imagination, the cultivation of imagination.
Speaker B:So you have an imagination and you appreciate it?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:You just really.
Speaker B:I would have thought that you would have like, wanted your kids to believe in.
Speaker B:Even if, Even if my 5 year old said, come on, dad, I'd be like, what, are you kidding me?
Speaker B:I would come up with an entire apologetic for the reality of Santa Claus.
Speaker A:My mom read romance novels and smoked extra long Virginia Slims.
Speaker A:So there was no, there was no fantasy imagination happening.
Speaker A:There was not a we.
Speaker A:I wasn't raised in a Christian home at all.
Speaker A:So I mean, my kids have a love for outlaw country, classic rock and roll, good food, good drink, and none of that nostalgia.
Speaker B:But what's interesting is that most Christian, not most, many Christian people out there who are parents feel very strongly that cultivating this imagination for Santa Claus is wrong.
Speaker A:That's my world.
Speaker A:That was the world that I lived in.
Speaker A:And I would.
Speaker A:I was a misfit breaker back then.
Speaker C:I mean, listen, let's throw Santa out the door with all the vaccines.
Speaker B:I feel like.
Speaker B:I feel like magic, but I feel like cultivating an imagination for Santa Claus is misfit ish.
Speaker B:In, in the Christian world.
Speaker A:I understand now one of the things.
Speaker A:This has nothing to do with Christmas, but it's kids.
Speaker A:It's in this world.
Speaker A:Like it's in the.
Speaker C:I want to give My Santa answer, too, before you move on to the next one.
Speaker B:Oh, about the kids.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He didn't.
Speaker C:No, no.
Speaker C:I just want to say before we go to the next question.
Speaker A:Anyway.
Speaker A:What was I saying?
Speaker A:It's on this.
Speaker B:It's on this imagination thing.
Speaker A:Imagination.
Speaker A:Kids believing in Santa.
Speaker A:One of the things we did is, you know how your kids can't say a word or can't express something, so they say it in, like a.
Speaker A:Like a kid would.
Speaker A:Like G.I.
Speaker A:joes for Wade.
Speaker A:Were G.I.
Speaker A:joes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:We fostered that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Until they.
Speaker A:Until they were playing with friends at 13.
Speaker A:Shame goes, what are you talking.
Speaker A:Yeah, we loved it.
Speaker A:Like, in the bad, Wade would be in the bathtub, and he wouldn't want to get out because he's having a good time.
Speaker A:He'd go.
Speaker A:He would say, few, four.
Speaker A:Few four minutes rather than a few more minutes.
Speaker A:A few four minutes.
Speaker B:Then my oldest son, Gabe, thought the word fever when you get sick was fever until he was probably 10 years old.
Speaker A:It's the greatest thing.
Speaker B:At least 10 years.
Speaker A:And we were like, don't correct him.
Speaker B:The F word in my home was not the typical F word.
Speaker B:It was F, A, R, T.
Speaker B:Hate that word.
Speaker B:Don't say it.
Speaker A:Do you do it in public?
Speaker B:Do you say the word?
Speaker A:No, it.
Speaker B:Oh, come on.
Speaker B:This is getting a little personal.
Speaker B:So I hate that word.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:I love you.
Speaker C:Can't hear it.
Speaker B:I hate it.
Speaker B:And so my kids grew up believing that that's the F word.
Speaker B:And I would call it the F word.
Speaker B:So listen, this is a true story.
Speaker B:My boys are outside one day.
Speaker A:I know what you're going, Nate.
Speaker B:Nate is.
Speaker B:Nate is at the time, probably 8.
Speaker B:Gabe is 10.
Speaker B:They're on the side yard neighborhood football game.
Speaker B:They're out there playing football.
Speaker B:Nate comes running in and says, dad, I was inside.
Speaker B:Dad, dad, Sammy just said the F word.
Speaker B:I'm like, what?
Speaker B:I run outside.
Speaker B:I said, sammy, come here, little neighborhood boy.
Speaker B:I said, nate just told me you said the F word.
Speaker B:He said, I swear I didn't say the F word.
Speaker B:I'm like, are you telling me that he's lying?
Speaker B:He's like, no, I promise you.
Speaker B:I promise.
Speaker B:They called me Mr.
Speaker B:T.
Speaker B:I promise you, Mr.
Speaker B:T.
Speaker B:I didn't say the.
Speaker B:The F word.
Speaker B:And Nate's like, yes, you did.
Speaker B:Yes, you did.
Speaker B:And I said, nate, spell what he said.
Speaker B:And Nate goes, he said F, A, R, T.
Speaker B:And I'm like, okay, Sammy, I'm sorry.
Speaker B:It's a little different in our home.
Speaker B:I know you didn't Say the F word.
Speaker C:The real one.
Speaker B:That's a word they think is the F word.
Speaker A:Candidating weekend in South Lake, Texas.
Speaker A:Candidating for an associate pastor role there.
Speaker A:My first one.
Speaker A:Sitting around a table with elders.
Speaker A:And Lauren comes up to me.
Speaker A:No, no, it must have been the second.
Speaker A:Must have been Nashville.
Speaker A:Must have been community at Nashville because they were older than.
Speaker A:And Lauren comes up to me, elders everywhere.
Speaker B:This is your daughter.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Dad, Wade just said the S word.
Speaker A:And I went.
Speaker A:I just had the state of mind to go.
Speaker A:Which S word, baby?
Speaker A:She goes, stupid.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:Funny.
Speaker A:The word I don't like, and this is crude, and I apologize this close to Christmas, but when people say pee, yeah, I gotta go pee.
Speaker B:What do you say?
Speaker A:I'm going to the bathroom.
Speaker A:And then I call it tt because.
Speaker B:That'S what we grew up with.
Speaker B:My mom.
Speaker B:So to this day, like, I'll be back.
Speaker B:I gotta go TT no, you gotta.
Speaker A:Stop it at the gym.
Speaker C:Hold on.
Speaker B:Tutu has to go TT I'll be back in a minute.
Speaker A:You gotta curb that, bro.
Speaker A:You gotta curb that.
Speaker C:We were 100 Santa Claus people.
Speaker A:I mean, sorry.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:We're talking about taking leaks.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Back to you.
Speaker C:Back to the podcast.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Before Tutu.
Speaker C:Tt's right.
Speaker B:Tutu needs to go TT So I hope your answers Tutu needs to go TT So I hope your answer go with your gut.
Speaker C:Okay, so my mother was insane.
Speaker C:Let's just start there.
Speaker C:Baseline insane.
Speaker C:Google Antonia LaRue obituary, you'll get it.
Speaker C:My.
Speaker C:She took Santa Claus so far that, I mean, I swear, if she and your mother got together, Thelma and Louise drive off the cliff on Christmas Eve until she died at 68, about 10, 12 years ago Christmas Eve.
Speaker C:You would open one gift, then we would smoke, because that's what you do.
Speaker C:And then we would make cookies for Santa.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Homemade cookies.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:On the plate.
Speaker C:And we would all, and I mean everybody, write an actual note.
Speaker C:Not a half assed note.
Speaker C:I mean, like a letter.
Speaker C:You are penning a letter to a man.
Speaker C:We would write the letters, we would put them down.
Speaker C:We would all go to bed.
Speaker C:And my mother's.
Speaker C:She's writing a letter.
Speaker C:I'll go to bed.
Speaker C:You still can't go in the living room.
Speaker C:Despite being 40 with three kids, you can't go in the living room.
Speaker C:And when you get into the living room, the first thing before the stockings, before breakfast, before anything is we had to read Santa's response, which always was a critique of the cookies.
Speaker C:I was like, you're Freaking crazy mom.
Speaker C:She was like, I didn't write that.
Speaker C:Santa wrote it.
Speaker B:And I was like, mom sounds very much like something.
Speaker B:We didn't do that.
Speaker B:But it sounds like something my mother would do.
Speaker C:I was like, every year we're all looking at each other and she literally.
Speaker C:Lie detector.
Speaker C:Like Santa wrote it.
Speaker B:So funny.
Speaker A:Well that's funny because my kids weren't allowed to use crude language about going to the bathroom.
Speaker A:Like p.
Speaker A:The word.
Speaker A:The problem that it developed when they said, dad, I need to go to the restroom is the urgency level was unknown.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:How long are you going to be there?
Speaker A:So no, that's.
Speaker A:So we had to do it.
Speaker A:We had to have a quicker response.
Speaker A:So for my SONS it was 10, 100 or 10 200.
Speaker A:So it moved to dad, I've got a 10, 10, 200.
Speaker A:We just.
Speaker A:And people go, what's he talking about?
Speaker A:I'll be back in a minute.
Speaker A:Or ten.
Speaker A:You never know.
Speaker A:Have you purchased all of your Christmas gifts?
Speaker A:Gifts yet?
Speaker B:Christmas shopping has become so much easier thanks to Amazon.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:There are certain things that I want to buy for people that I can't find on Amazon perhaps.
Speaker B:And then I'll go into a store.
Speaker B:But I'm usually.
Speaker B:I don't do early Christmas shopping.
Speaker B:I used to be a week of guy and now I kind of split.
Speaker B:Sprinkle it out sporadically throughout December.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:You start on prime day.
Speaker B:I don't even know what day that is.
Speaker B:Black Friday.
Speaker C:Ish.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:But that's so that's.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's around the same time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:My, my kids are all very predictable.
Speaker A:My boys want the most expensive gift available.
Speaker A:That's at the most limited supply electronics of some sort.
Speaker A:Games.
Speaker A:Wade.
Speaker A:It's a, it's a jersey of somebody.
Speaker A:And he's getting at the age as a man can't wear another man's jersey with his name on the back of him.
Speaker A:But he's.
Speaker A:He's in the window so he's got some time.
Speaker A:Blake.
Speaker A:It's like I need a new carburetor or just give me the cash and I'll go do it.
Speaker A:And Lauren is like me.
Speaker A:She's like whatever.
Speaker A:I love whatever you give me.
Speaker A:That sort of thing.
Speaker A:So I typically, I go down to the new age store, get the candle she wants or the meditation pillow or whatever Stream catcher.
Speaker A:Don't.
Speaker A:Yeah, don't mess with her.
Speaker A:She'll curse you.
Speaker A:But they're all very predictable in that way.
Speaker A:And I always wait till the last minute.
Speaker C:Yeah, I'm an all year guy.
Speaker B:I'LL buy.
Speaker C:I'll start buying them.
Speaker B:Smart.
Speaker C:When I see things that like are somebody's thing like one of my.
Speaker C:I mean I don't know about that language of love book but gift giving my mother, that was it and I got it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like I'll see it.
Speaker C:Like if you mentioned to me something that you like and I happen to be in another country and I see it, it's for some reason I have.
Speaker B:A custom coffee mug at home that proves what you are saying is true about yourself.
Speaker A:I marvel at that.
Speaker A:I don't have that gift at all.
Speaker A:And I've warned people in my life, if you know what I'm saying, that I suck at that.
Speaker C:Yeah, we love it.
Speaker C:Val and I keep, we.
Speaker C:We have Rubbermaid bins that we each of the kids names and we are strict about even numbers and even cash value.
Speaker B:That's good and smart.
Speaker B:I, I am not shy about asking the primary people in my life.
Speaker B:Wife, kids.
Speaker B:Send me a list.
Speaker B:Yeah, I want a list.
Speaker B:I want it to be.
Speaker B:I don't care how long it is but I need direction here.
Speaker B:And then I'll just sort of.
Speaker B:My wife Stacy will go so far as to not only send me a list but send me links.
Speaker B:Direct links.
Speaker B:So I literally shopper versus like boom boom boom, boom boom boom.
Speaker B:Shopping cart purchase.
Speaker C:Do you buy your own gifts?
Speaker C:You mean like do you buy something for yourself from Santa that nobody else knew and you open it on Christmas morning and everybody knows I don't do that.
Speaker B:But I have done that and, and the one thing I tell everybody in my life never to buy me close clothes I'm not gonna wear.
Speaker B:I've got to try it on most of the time I'm picky about that stuff.
Speaker B:So I like just don't.
Speaker B:Why waste your time?
Speaker A:Why make me take it back?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Just don't waste your time.
Speaker B:Don't waste your time.
Speaker A:Last.
Speaker A:I have a.
Speaker A:I have a friend that's.
Speaker A:And you've been to his home.
Speaker A:That is a.
Speaker A:He's like the drop king of shoes.
Speaker A:He's like probably fourth or fifth in the country in the Nike Air Jordan collaboration high end.
Speaker A:Eleven thousand dollar pair of Nike shoes.
Speaker C:I could.
Speaker C:I've seen this place.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I've never.
Speaker C:I saw a pair of shoes that cost a hundred thousand dollars and I couldn't believe it.
Speaker A:It's crazy.
Speaker B:So even I know a few pastors who own those.
Speaker A:I'm just kidding down here.
Speaker A:I was going to wear a pair.
Speaker B:That he gave preachers with sneakers.
Speaker A:Sneaky preachers last year, he goes, hey, why don't I give your kids some shoes?
Speaker A:Like some Jordans for.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:It was spectacular.
Speaker C:That's awesome.
Speaker A:In the, in, in the mix was Travis Scott collaboration.
Speaker A:Yeah, they're phenomenal.
Speaker A:Anyway, it was great.
Speaker A:It was a great.
Speaker B:I like, I, I like the shoes you're wearing today.
Speaker A:You know what they are?
Speaker B:Yeah, there's.
Speaker B:Yeah, the old Stan Smith, like the original stance.
Speaker A:Very first pair of sneakers as a kid when I came into my own.
Speaker A:Mom take me to the shoe store there.
Speaker A:I wasn't using the ones with the things that light up on.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:No, no, no, no.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker A:I want those.
Speaker B:That is a minimalist shoe right there, and I love it.
Speaker A:That's me.
Speaker A:So thanks, guys.
Speaker A:We got insight.
Speaker A:Tell me, the listener personally, what brings you the greatest joy around the Christmas season?
Speaker A:Now, having said that, and we should address this at some point.
Speaker A:There are a lot of people out there and probably we're some of these, that the holiday seasons are tough.
Speaker A:So we don't.
Speaker A:As we're talking about this, we don't want to ignore that and we'll address that.
Speaker A:But around the table, and we're really talking about nostalgia here.
Speaker A:We could be talking about theology.
Speaker A:It doesn't.
Speaker A:Doesn't matter.
Speaker A:There's no wrong answer here.
Speaker A:What brings you the most joy around.
Speaker B:Christmas time or Christmas?
Speaker C:I mean, it really.
Speaker C:Last year, for the first time, and we mentioned on a previous episode or I mean, I.
Speaker C:Maybe we're just talking about the Chosen, but we sat down and rather than reading the Christmas story this year, we watched.
Speaker C:We watched the Birth of Christ episode of the Chosen.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I'm telling you, we.
Speaker C:We could barely.
Speaker C:It was like, okay, no press.
Speaker C:It was unbelievable.
Speaker C:And so I think for me, it really is.
Speaker C:I really do try and be intentional on that day going, okay, like, I need.
Speaker C:I need to get this really, really front and center in my head because the story of God moving toward us in that is so unbelievable to me.
Speaker A:What do you mean, God moving?
Speaker C:When I think about what I'm like and what I mean, you give me the right amount of anonymity, money, freedom, I'll do any.
Speaker C:This heart will run into the darkest places you could find.
Speaker C:And in order to rescue me from me, I mean, that's the Christmas story, right?
Speaker C:God took on flesh so that he might live the perfect life that I couldn't live.
Speaker C:I mean, I remember telling somebody one time, I said, you've got to reconcile the fact that Christmas and Easter were not on the same day because Baby Jesus was as sinless, his blood was as perfect.
Speaker C:But he lived a life to earn the Father's affection.
Speaker C:And that started on Christmas.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's like there's a reason he was born and lived 33 years.
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker C:Didn't leave the next day, as Luke says, baptized.
Speaker C:I mean, he was circumcised on the eighth day in accordance with the law.
Speaker B:I have come not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.
Speaker C:Amen.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, piggybacking on that idea, I think the event of the Incarnation, the first Christmas, sums up everything we're about here.
Speaker B:That it is our shit that summons God's grace and mercy.
Speaker B:It's not our goodness and our cleanness that summons God's grace.
Speaker B:It is our badness, our misfitness, our screwed upness that summons God's amazing grace.
Speaker B:And I think that's incredibly powerful.
Speaker B:I think for me these days, this is going to sound far less spiritual.
Speaker B:And your answer was spot on.
Speaker B:Watching my grandkids open up presents, man, I.
Speaker B:That brings.
Speaker B:I could give a rat's ass what I get on Christmas Day.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:God is my witness.
Speaker B:And I used to love more than anything watching my kids open their gifts.
Speaker B:And I still do, but they're all adults now.
Speaker B:Being able to relive that by watching my grandkids come to Tutu's house to open their presence and their reaction, I mean, it is life giving to me.
Speaker B:Life giving way.
Speaker A:What is it in there?
Speaker A:I mean, I.
Speaker A:From the outside looking in makes total sense, of course, but for you, what does it?
Speaker B:I'm extremely nostalgic, very sentimental, almost paralyzingly so at times.
Speaker B:I miss so much Christmas in my home with my kids when they were small.
Speaker B:And for my kids to now bring their kids to my place and watch them, it's just.
Speaker B:It brings back some amazing memories.
Speaker B:The joy, the excitement, static joy on their faces, their excitement, their gratitude.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:They're so overwhelmed by these gifts.
Speaker B:And we spoil them.
Speaker A:Of course.
Speaker A:Of course.
Speaker B:And on Christmas Day, as you should.
Speaker B:As we should.
Speaker B:There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I just.
Speaker B:I mean, I think about the last two Christmases in particular, and I have videos on my phone of my two oldest grandsons opening up presents from Tutu and tc they call Stacy.
Speaker C:They call her what?
Speaker B:TC.
Speaker B:Because that's Mason, my oldest, who's now nine.
Speaker B:He couldn't say Stacy when he was.
Speaker B:He only knows me with Stacy.
Speaker A:I love mispronounced grandparent names more than Any other name?
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:My mother want to be named grandmother.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And my niece very.
Speaker A:Said.
Speaker A:She said Gigi.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That was it.
Speaker B:That was it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:So they.
Speaker B:Mason couldn't say Stacy, so he would say tc and we thought, this sounds right.
Speaker B:So QC and tutu.
Speaker B:But watching them come over, I have videos on my phone of them falling over, running around.
Speaker B:I mean, it's just, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Life is.
Speaker B:There are things about getting older that are very, very difficult for me to accept.
Speaker B:Very difficult.
Speaker B:I exercise every day.
Speaker B:My body hurts more these days.
Speaker B:There are the obvious ones, physical things, but it is.
Speaker B:I can hardly walk past a picture of my kids when they were, let's say, 10, 8, 4, in my home without breaking down.
Speaker B:I can't.
Speaker B:I mean, I.
Speaker B:Those moments are the moments that we're in and the moments we will have.
Speaker B:Beautiful.
Speaker B:Love them.
Speaker B:But the moments that I've already experienced with them in particular.
Speaker A:Gone to see this side of you when you're describing this.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I'm sure you relate.
Speaker A:I can relate.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker A:There was making your kids just 110 prove happy in those spaces.
Speaker A:There was always this.
Speaker A:This innocence.
Speaker A:Isn't going to be here all the time.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:It's like when I pull up, if I drive six hours to go on vacation, pull up to the vacation home.
Speaker A:Very first thing I'm thinking about when I pull in is the time's going to go super fast.
Speaker A:I'm going to be leaving in what feels like 10 minutes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Which is.
Speaker B:I'm very aware of that, how my brain works.
Speaker A:And that's that with my kids.
Speaker A:It was, you know what?
Speaker A:Screw it.
Speaker A:I'm all in.
Speaker A:Anything they want.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right here, right now.
Speaker A:Protected as long as you see.
Speaker B:But I didn't.
Speaker B:I don't think I appreciated how quick time passes.
Speaker B:When I was in my 30s, for instance.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm in my early 50s now, having lost as much as I lost 10 years ago.
Speaker B:Realizing the preciousness and importance of moments.
Speaker B:And when I think about those precious, important moments, they almost always involve kids and grandkids.
Speaker A:I was always wired this way.
Speaker A:And I am.
Speaker A:I'm melancholy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which isn't sadness and it isn't depression, and it isn't Debbie Downer or Eeyore.
Speaker A:It's really kind of the capacity to feel the moment.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I would always say there are two types of people in the world.
Speaker A:Those that you have to say, hey, quit staring at the Grand Canyon.
Speaker A:We have to go.
Speaker A:And those who look at it for about five minutes and Head to the gift shop.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm the former.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like there's something in here.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, so I was always as.
Speaker A:Even as a kid, like I would sit around watching my parents or something and know there's a special moment here.
Speaker A:I hope everyone.
Speaker A:So when I.
Speaker A:When the kids came into the world.
Speaker B:It was like, game over.
Speaker A:I just sat there and observed it.
Speaker C:What's it for you, that thing that makes Christmas the thing?
Speaker A:Well, I love theology, not that that's unique to anyone.
Speaker A:And I love the Christmas season from a theological perspective because it reminds me of the intricacies of the grace that we always talk about.
Speaker A:So if you think about grace as a big grandfather clock, we're always pointing at the whole thing, you know, the clock, the apparatus, the grace.
Speaker A:But if you open it up, there's.
Speaker A:There's some complexities that made that possible.
Speaker A:So the way.
Speaker C:So well said.
Speaker A:So I like to think, you know, most of people think that God sat down with a pen and a piece of paper and said, first I'm going to.
Speaker A:First I'm going to.
Speaker A:First I'm going to.
Speaker A:But that can't be true.
Speaker A:There's not a linear.
Speaker A:All things, all time, everywhere, all the time, so on and so forth.
Speaker A:And so this is how I think of it in my mind, and I'm not going to go back farther than this.
Speaker A:But when he determined to save sinners, what was necessary was instantaneously known and put into place.
Speaker A:So as he imagined the clock, the clock happened, and all the intricacies inside were there.
Speaker A:So think of things this way and you guys can tell me to stop.
Speaker A:If I look at the gospel and follow that backwards and reverse engineer it, it testifies to a triune God.
Speaker A:It's the evidence of a triune God.
Speaker A:There's no way that could have happened.
Speaker A:Christ on earth dying for us.
Speaker A:Unless there was a triune being who determined to do that.
Speaker A:You can't get away from those things.
Speaker A:So the theology that comes out around the Christmas holidays, and particularly the incarnation, his humanity was a necessary piece of the execution of grace.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And you think of humanity, you think of deity, and his humanity was the bridge from earth.
Speaker A:Well, yeah.
Speaker A:How's it go?
Speaker A:Something along the lines.
Speaker A:His deity brought him halfway from heaven to earth and.
Speaker C:Are you quoting this song?
Speaker A:Match that?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker C:Oh, I thought you were singing that song.
Speaker A:Is there a song that goes that way?
Speaker C:He came from heaven to earth to show us the way.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know about that, but.
Speaker C:Can I pause?
Speaker B:You for, you know, I'm going to be singing that the rest of the day.
Speaker C:Hey, can I pause you.
Speaker C:Can I pause you for one second and ask you to go back, pick up the clock, take out the triune God, remember our audience, and say part of the clock was that God had to become man to take my place.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:The other was.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:It was too lofty.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, that's.
Speaker B:In other words, you're too smart.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, you gotta dumb it down for us.
Speaker A:Well, I'm not dumbing it down in this moment because you asked me what.
Speaker A:What I liked about Christmas.
Speaker A:Dad.
Speaker A:Gabbit.
Speaker A:Anyway, you're right.
Speaker C:But is it less followers?
Speaker A:My point is, I don't normally talk this way out loud to people, especially you.
Speaker A:And I like when this stuff comes up because I can sit and just freaking nerd out, obsess about it, and it's infinitely great.
Speaker A:So here's how it's dumbed down.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker C:Talk to me.
Speaker C:Dumb it down to the frat boy.
Speaker A:John, you.
Speaker A:You love grace.
Speaker C:I do.
Speaker A:And you understand it well.
Speaker A:But for the rest of your life, for the rest of your life.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker A:Will never, ever, ever plumb the depths of the details.
Speaker A:And the things that God did, the things that he put in place, even in your own personal history to redeem you.
Speaker A:And when you start looking at that, the particularity of it, even on the individual level, it is overwhelming.
Speaker B:It is infinitely overwhelming.
Speaker A:Overwhelming that he was here, that he had to grow up, that they fled at Christmas, the story of the wise men and all those sorts of things, that whole scene of him having to run and that humility in that moment, the fact that God himself incarnate as a helpless child, saved me.
Speaker A:The reason that I work at it that way is it helps me not take it for granted.
Speaker A:Underneath all of the smells of candles and all the things that we eat and all the.
Speaker A:Whatever it is, I just kind of sit there and marvel.
Speaker A:I don't think people understand how.
Speaker A:Of course they do.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:No, we don't.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:I think you said it right a few minutes ago.
Speaker B:I don't think we can understand as finite, fallen humans.
Speaker B:And I'm going to say we know it's true.
Speaker B:We cannot comprehend what.
Speaker A:Whatever the conception you have in your mind of who God the Father is right now.
Speaker B:It'S incomplete beyond infinitely.
Speaker A:There is a mystery on the other side of it that is incomprehensible.
Speaker A:Great, but that He.
Speaker A:Great, but that he loved me.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:What's so interesting to me is Christianity has been marketed for the most part, and marketed well as this idea that we do for God, we perform for God, we obey God, we pursue holiness for God, we pursue godliness.
Speaker B:It's all about a climb, always about an ascension on our part.
Speaker B:And what I love about the Incarnation is it explodes that paradigm, explodes it and says, this is not about your faithfulness, your goodness, your devotedness, or your climb.
Speaker B:This is about God's goodness, God's devotedness, God's faithfulness and God's descent.
Speaker B:And he's descending into a dirty place because it's a dirty.
Speaker B:He's not.
Speaker B:He's not descending in spite of the fact that it's dirty.
Speaker B:He's descending because it's dirty.
Speaker B:And so this, it just.
Speaker B:It sets in motion, I think Christmas sort of sets in motion the divine pattern of God always climbing down on.
Speaker B:Onto the bathroom floor with us.
Speaker B:And when we think that the Christian life is.
Speaker B:Or that the Christian faith is all about the Christian life getting better, stronger, cleaner, whatnot, we are in essence, in those moments, completely disregarding the fundamental beauty of the incarnation.
Speaker A:And Jesus loves me.
Speaker A:This I know, for the Bible tells me so.
Speaker A:Yeah, is also there.
Speaker A:But this is.
Speaker A:This is just my mind.
Speaker A:I remember I preached a sermon on Christmas Eve every year, and it was always this.
Speaker A:It was always this.
Speaker A:Let me show you another angle.
Speaker C:So once, the Grand Canyon.
Speaker C:I love when you said the Grand Canyon, like just staring at it with your mouth gaped open.
Speaker B:Without stopping at the gift shop on the way back to the car, go.
Speaker A:To the Grand Canyon, find somebody who's never been there and try to explain it to them.
Speaker A:You cannot explain it to him.
Speaker A:You have to see it for yourself.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So once one Christmas, Christmas Eve, I preached a sermon about the coin in the fish's mouth.
Speaker A:Go to the fish, get the fish out, take the.
Speaker A:People were like, what in the world does that have to do.
Speaker A:It was Peter.
Speaker A:What does that have to do with Christmas?
Speaker A:There's a story, Jesus tells him, go get the coin.
Speaker A:Are you going to pay the temple tax or whatever?
Speaker A:And then there's a.
Speaker A:He goes in, fishes, pulls out a fish.
Speaker A:There's a coin in the fish's mouth.
Speaker A:Jesus teaches a story.
Speaker A:And here's what I did.
Speaker A:I don't know how long ago, but there was a fisherman in a boat, and that fisherman was in the boat, and he leaned over to do something, and a coin, which would have been very significant to him, fell down in the water.
Speaker A:And this fish is swimming by, and it looks like a shad.
Speaker A:And the fish hits the Shad what he thinks is another fish, and he swallows a coin and the fish just goes on about his business and it's just living his fish life with no problems at all.
Speaker A:Then one day there's a hook, and the hook grabs him and pulls him out of the water.
Speaker A:And he realizes in that moment that he's a fish.
Speaker A:And then all of a sudden there's this big burly fisherman who shoves his hand down in his gills and pulls out this coin.
Speaker A:The fish sees it, throws the fish back and goes, whew.
Speaker A:That was close.
Speaker A:But God put all of that history in place to teach this lesson to Peter about who he was and who he was, was subject to the rules and laws of earth and the laws of God in complete humility to the extent that he was willing to pay a tax for a temple of which he would be the final sacrifice.
Speaker A:And it was like, merry Christmas.
Speaker A:And the people were like, that was the weirdest Christmas sermon I have ever heard in my life.
Speaker A:And it was.
Speaker A:But I saw it.
Speaker A:I don't know if I explained it well to them, but I was well pleased with myself and left.
Speaker A:But that's just kind of how my mind works at Christmas.
Speaker B:I love it, I think, this time of year.
Speaker B:And we touched on it at the beginning of this episode.
Speaker B:I never quite understood the people who would tell me that Christmas was the most painful day of their year.
Speaker B:Growing up the way that I did, experiencing Christmas the way that I did in my home with my family of origin, establishing Christmas traditions with my kids in my home, Christmas was always the hap, hap, happiest time of the year for me.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B: And then: Speaker B:I'm living in Orlando in a two bedroom apartment, all alone.
Speaker B:Sat on my balcony of this apartment on Christmas day, all by myself for the entire day, did not see another human being.
Speaker B:That day was probably the most depressing moment of my life up until that point.
Speaker B:And I got it.
Speaker B:I understood for the first time all of those people that would come to me and tell me how much they struggled, how the suicide rate just skyrockets during the holiday season.
Speaker B:And it never made sense to me.
Speaker B:Now it does.
Speaker B:And it is only been.
Speaker B:I'm 10 years removed from that day, nine years removed from that very day.
Speaker B:And it's only been probably the last three, maybe four Christmases that I've.
Speaker B:That I've been excited again.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker B:I mean, only the last three.
Speaker A:I get that.
Speaker B:And, and so to the person who is facing aloneness.
Speaker B:Not just aloneness, but maybe this is the first Christmas you're divorced and figuring out how to shuffle the kids back and forth.
Speaker B:You were the.
Speaker B:This is the first Christmas without your dad, the first Christmas without your mom.
Speaker B:Maybe you had a child die, whatever the case may be, or maybe someone that you love got some really bad news and you know this is going to be the last Christmas you have.
Speaker B:Whatever the case may be, broken Christmases are a reality.
Speaker B:And I never quite understood it.
Speaker A:I broke one.
Speaker B:Yeah, me too.
Speaker B:And I never.
Speaker B:I never quite understood it.
Speaker B:But no amount of talk from you, or you or me about the beauty of the incarnation, the beauty of what God has done for us, none of that.
Speaker B:I know for me.
Speaker B:And I knew this stuff.
Speaker B:I mean, I was a theologian and knew this stuff.
Speaker B:Sitting on that balcony that Christmas Day, all by myself all day long, none of the truth that I knew to be true mattered.
Speaker B:It didn't land.
Speaker B:None of it landed.
Speaker B:And I was frustrated because it didn't land.
Speaker B:And then you get a little bit further away from it and you realize it's okay.
Speaker B:It's okay that it didn't land.
Speaker B:It's okay in that moment.
Speaker B:Like, I don't.
Speaker B:It's okay that it hurt, that I hated it, and that I wasn't.
Speaker B:You know, I was.
Speaker B:All the emotion, self pity, regret, loss, all of it.
Speaker B:Crying off and on all day that day.
Speaker B:And none of the truths about the incarnation, the reality of grace, none of that stuff comforted me in that moment.
Speaker B:And the only thing I want to say to people, if that is in any way descriptive of you, is it's okay.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's not going to last forever.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker B:Feel what you feel.
Speaker A:Say that to me because I need to hear it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, it's absolutely okay to feel that way.
Speaker B:To pretend that that doesn't exist is dishonest.
Speaker B:One of the things I love about the Psalms is that they give us permission to feel what we're feeling when.
Speaker B:Without stuffing it or trying to spiritualize ourselves out of it.
Speaker B:Yes, but I mean, I was told of a funeral not long ago.
Speaker B:This is a younger couple who lost a child.
Speaker B:And these are very polished people.
Speaker B:And during the funeral, I wasn't there, but during the funeral, someone I know was.
Speaker B:And the person who I knew called me afterwards and said, I'm leaving the funeral and I'm mad.
Speaker B:And I said, well, tell me, what are you talking about?
Speaker B:And he said, both the mother and the father who were Christian leaders in Their own right.
Speaker B:Visibly stood up and said, although we are sad today, we know.
Speaker B:And they spiritualize it instead of just saying, why the God would you allow this to happen?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:And that is oftentimes what the Christian community tells us is the right thing to do.
Speaker B:God is good all the time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, you lost, you.
Speaker B:You lose a child, you get exposed for your worst moment, you go through a divorce, whatever the case may be, but God is good.
Speaker B:I'm like, bro, there'll be a time to say that it ain't now.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:I mean, have all of the fu.
Speaker B:Conversations with God you need to have.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker B:He can handle it.
Speaker B:And we have plenty of evidence in the Bible that proves God can handle it.
Speaker B:And so I would just say to those people, feel it, feel it, Feel it all.
Speaker B:There is so much benefit in feeling the grief, even though it doesn't feel like a benefit in the moment.
Speaker B:There is so much benefit in feeling the grief, in feeling.
Speaker B:Feeling the sadness, in feeling the despair and realizing that we are broken people who are living in a broken world with other broken people.
Speaker B:And that's okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That response is as.
Speaker A:As an.
Speaker A:Is as natural an emotional reflex as, you know, which response.
Speaker B:Feeling it, feeling.
Speaker A:Letting it come in.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You know, and the idea that we need to suppress that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker B:Or make ourselves feel guilty for not having more faith in that moment.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, I don't even.
Speaker A:Know what that means.
Speaker B:I mean, like, yes, this is a terrible thing, but I should still be praising God in this moment.
Speaker B:Maybe there are moments where you can do that.
Speaker B:I can't.
Speaker A:I think people misunderstand that lamentation is also a form of worship.
Speaker B:That's exactly right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Don't pretend the pain isn't there.
Speaker B:It's real.
Speaker B:And you can try to talk yourself out of it by saying, yeah, but in the grand scheme of things, this pain is so much smaller than, you know, the pain that many people experience.
Speaker B:And I'm like, bro, it's your pain.
Speaker B:Feel it to you.
Speaker B:This feels like the end of the world.
Speaker B:Don't minim.
Speaker B:Don't minimal.
Speaker B:Minimize it.
Speaker B:Don't maximize it.
Speaker B:But don't minimize it.
Speaker B:Don't spiritualize it.
Speaker B:Just feel it and it's real.
Speaker A:But you do if you're in that state.
Speaker A:I've been there.
Speaker A:I've been there recently.
Speaker A:It's really hard to walk around in the midst of a holiday like this with all the joy.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:All the.
Speaker B:It's a trigger.
Speaker A:It's one bit.
Speaker A:It's 25 days of a smile.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And it's it.
Speaker A:You, you either put on the plastic and go with it or you go, you know, I'm done with that.
Speaker A:I'm going to feel what I need to feel.
Speaker A:I need to feel this right in this moment.
Speaker A:It can be a huge challenge.
Speaker B:And it's not even so much a conscious decision as much as I am feeling this.
Speaker B:I am feeling this.
Speaker B:It's not even like, okay, do I feel this or do I choose not to feel this or stuff.
Speaker B:It ain't going away.
Speaker B:I mean, just that pain.
Speaker B:That first Christmas for me, post, crashing and burning alone, I had established all of these traditions with the wife of my youth for our family, for our kids.
Speaker B:I was devastatingly sad.
Speaker B:Devastatingly sad that day.
Speaker B:Depressed in a way I had never felt before.
Speaker B:And I look back now and I don't ever want to experience a Christmas like that again.
Speaker B:But I'm glad I experienced that one.
Speaker C:You know, when you were talking, I mean, I know we're over, sure, but when you were talking just now, the thought hit me that we do such a great job of addressing the broken parents or the divorce or all that.
Speaker C:And literally when you were talking, I thought, and there are kids.
Speaker C:Children of divorce.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Who are sitting here today when we bemoan as parents, Christmas isn't all in the place it was always supposed to be.
Speaker C:And they're sitting there listening to this and they're having to pick.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:And here's the deal.
Speaker C:It sucks.
Speaker B:It does suck.
Speaker B:It's never going to not suck.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:Period.
Speaker C:And, and the reality of that is of Christmas for like, when you have to figure out how to get to your dad or get to your mom or work through the drama.
Speaker C:You have a father in heaven who came to you.
Speaker C:That's the story.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's the story.
Speaker A:At the end of the day, you're so right.
Speaker A:My, my kids are like, dad, why don't, why don't mom and you and us just be together?
Speaker C:Get over it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And mom and you and us be together on Christmas morning or whatever.
Speaker A:And I'm saying, like, I, I'm open to it now.
Speaker A:My ex wife Robin is Christmas rock star.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I can in comparison, just suck.
Speaker A:I, I can by comparison.
Speaker A:I don't even know what Christmas is, you know, that sort of thing.
Speaker A:And so this last year, a year before last Christmas, I went, I'm going to give my kids a break.
Speaker A:Mom's for Christmas Eve.
Speaker A:I'll come over for Christmas morning and hang out.
Speaker A:She's been so gracious to me.
Speaker A:She said yes.
Speaker A:And my kids have accepted everything.
Speaker A:They understand everything now.
Speaker A:They've processed through it.
Speaker A:They'll limp for a while, but I never ever, ever thought that that could happen.
Speaker A:And it happened.
Speaker A:I went over on Christmas morning, a lot of the same traditions were there, same Christmas casserole for breakfast and those sort of things.
Speaker A:But there was this really unique moment of peace in that space, in a full circle.
Speaker A:And then I remember my ex wife Robin go, don't think this is going to happen all the time.
Speaker C:God bless you, Robin.
Speaker C:Yeah, she holds the truth at Christmas.
Speaker A:She holds her ground.
Speaker A:But even in the midst of everything that I caused and the separation that happened as a result of that, there's just like I'm testifying to what you're saying.
Speaker A:It's not going to always be this way.
Speaker B:No, it.
Speaker B:Well, I mean it feels different now than it did for me.
Speaker B:Now some of my on Christmas is just kids have their own lives now.
Speaker B:You know, they got their own people, they got their own lives.
Speaker B:My son's got his own family.
Speaker B:And so it's just, it's quieter.
Speaker B:But as I get older and more tired, I'm also, look, I also am growing to appreciate quieter Christmases, to be honest with you.
Speaker A:Well, thank you guys.
Speaker A:We got a wrap.
Speaker A:But we just want to say to the listener out there, we love you.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Merry Christmas.
Speaker C:Merry Christmas.
Speaker B:You've been listening to the misfit preachers like subscribe and share more grace centered resources@prodigalpodcasts.com that's Prodigal P R O D I G A L podcasts with an s dot com.
